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Private Journal – Keep Out.

Archive for March, 2011

transition time.

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Jeremy Meyers
so…yeah.
11:57
Kate Farina

11:58
Jeremy Meyers
i’m sorry its been difficult lately
11:58
Kate Farina
hey, you’re going through a challenging time. i didn’t sign up for the good parts only
and god knows, i have my rough times too
the important thing is that we can talk about it
12:00
Jeremy Meyers
i know
here’s the thing
when i was living with my dad as an adult
a lot of my time was spent with like…blinders on… just trying to get through another day
figuring out different ways how i could get through the week
being at home, on the computer, watching tv, reading, porning, whatever
coping mechanisms
diversion
s
and it was a really hard time for me
and that replicated itself when i first moved in to my apartment
when i was by myself
there were a lot of nights and weekends where i’d just do my best to oookill time until i could sleep
and my sleep schedule switched around to being awake at night
and usch
such
as my default
and it was sad but i was comfortable
in that spiral
so when i have an extended period where i feel like i dont really have a purpose
like now
even though i know intellectually that its only temporary
theres a pull inside for me to go back into that, and protect myself, and shut down from others
and like…get onthe computer when i can’t sleep
and play with people online when i feel lonely
etc
but its different because i can’t just do that because i have you, so there are consequences
i can’t just hide
so that causes friction
and makes me want to push and get snarky
even though i dont really WANT to
and i guess leads to you feeling taken for granted
so
i just have to figure out what to d
o
and how to cope
yeah thats all i have
Kate Farina
whoa, sorry i was away from my desk
okay.
i do understand that somewhat
i haven’t been in that exact situation, but i have gone through periods like that
i was seriously depressed living in phoenix and then after when i was unemployed
and i know that as much as i bitch about my job and i hate it on many levels, i would have some trouble if i didn’t have it
maybe this sounds weird to you, but when we started dating, you seemed so stable and together
i say ‘seemed’ because that was my perception, i’m not sure if it was your reality
12:16
Jeremy Meyers
well, i was more togehter than the last time we hung out
plus i’d just started a new job that i liked
12:17
Kate Farina
right
and you were so into meditation and stuff
and i was a fucking mess
i’ve talked about this with my therapist, how sometimes i’m more comfortable not being the ‘leader’ in some ways
so i guess that’s why i’ve felt a little uneasy lately. i feel a little more responsibility to sort of keep things on track or whatever
12:21
Jeremy Meyers
i’m not sure what you think you ahve to do beyond what you usually do
12:22
Kate Farina
i guess i have an urge to try and make you ‘happy’
or feel like it’s all going to be okay
provide some comfort
but i know that i can’t fix it
i can’t really do much of anything except be supportive and access to my butt
12:27
Jeremy Meyers
i think the thing is
this is how it is
12:30
Kate Farina
yes
12:31
Jeremy Meyers
and it seems like when either of us try to ‘fix’ or whatever, it jsut makes it worse
12:31
Kate Farina
we’re doing the best we can during a tough time
12:31
Jeremy Meyers
i dont want to be snippy at you
i know its misdirected
12:31
Kate Farina
okay
12:32
Jeremy Meyers
but sometiems i am
when i’m feeling like this
12:35
Kate Farina
i love you even when you’re feeling not so great
but i reserve the right to call you out on being snippy
12:35
Jeremy Meyers
i know
i jsut wanted you to know that i know i’m doing it and i dont like…feel good about it but i’m trying to figure out how to be in this situation when its not just me.
12:36
Kate Farina
yes. i’m still figuring stuff out too
12:36
Jeremy Meyers
and my default is to push people away
no matter who they are
12:37
Kate Farina
just don’t push me out of bed

Written by admin

March 22nd, 2011 at 12:52 pm

Posted in Kate

various discussions about nonmonogamy

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Me
what do you think about monogamy as a social construct? does it go against our more fundamental nature and are we just kidding ourselves by thinking we can be happy with a single sexual partner over a long period of time? whats the ideal situation if societal pressures were less of a factor?
1:45pmTamsen
Good day to you, too!
1:45pmMe
hi!
1:45pmTamsen
I could swear I just saw an article about this within the last day or two…
1:47pmMe
yeah theres a new book out
1:47pmTamsen
It’s definitely a social construct, not a biological one.
But I think, for most cultures, there are very good reasons why the construct is in place.
At the same time, those very cultures are changing, so the rigidity of the construct is, too.
1:48pmMe
as evidence mounts
no pun intended
1:48pmTamsen is offline.
1:48pmTamsen is online.
1:48pmMe
divorce rates, etc
1:48pmTamsen
Exactly.
As far as I’m concerned, it’s to each his or her own, as long as people are open and honest about where they fall in regards to their expectations of monogamy.
In other words, don’t tell me you’re monogamous if you’re not.
1:49pmMe
sure… communication is key in any interaction between two people
doubly so if at least one of them is naked
1:50pmTamsen
One would hope.

1:51pmTamsen
What has you thinking about this in the middle of the day?
BRB
1:52pmMe
i just think the perception of long term marital “bliss” is fading and the reality of whether its tenable is showing itself more and more, and the perception isn’t keeping up. and i’m wondering if GenY will be among teh last generations to have ‘mom dad and kids’ be the norm
2:02pmTamsen
Very possible. But I think our perspective is VERY affected by our metropolitan locales. Folks in middle American think us city folk live in Sodom and Gemorrah.
But I have to run to a meeting…I’ll be back on later.
2:02pmMe
well we do, dont’ we?

2:03pmTamsen
In our way, yes

====
Me
what do you think about monogamy as a social construct? does it go against our more fundamental nature and are we just kidding ourselves by thinking we can be happy with a single sexual partner over a long period of time?
2:03pmJoe
no…it is wonderful to be monogamous
I think it is natural
it is staying with the person you choose
no matter how different or odd
2:04pmMe
right but is that necessarily reliant on never having other sexual partners
2:04pmJoe
no
2:05pmMe
can you be 100% committed to your partner and also have sex with other people either together or separately
2:05pmJoe
if you can rise to that level of maturity
no..not exactly
if your partner is fully aware
or has equal permission
I know many mature couples who share
usually after the children, etc.
exploratory orgies can be supported in that openess too
2:06pmMe
gay and striaght?
2:06pmJoe
both
some couples go on orgie retreats
wife swapping is still huge
most of these types of people are very sexual
sexuality being their primary form of expression
2:08pmMe
interesting
2:08pmJoe
yeah..there is a lot of fun to be had out there
2:08pmMe
indeed
i dont know… been talking about it with kate
we’re both pretty sexually adventurous, but its tweaking her more than its tweaking me
i mean, talking about the concept, not talking about going out and scoring some random girl
2:09pmJoe
women need a lot of security before they feel comfortable about that stuff
you guys are still pretty new…she may find it as a way for you to hedge…be careful
2:10pmMe
i’m not pushing her toward a particular goal
and i’m not questioning my commitment to her
or hedging
i mean… she’s it. i just want us to be able to explore and have fun and have an adventurous relationship as much as we can
its not like “i want her to let me fuck other people”
and she knows this
2:12pmJoe
I don’t know…
I’m just speaking from experience
2:12pmMe
yeah
i mean it has been tweaking her, so i’m laying off of the discussion for awhile
2:13pmJoe
yeah
2:13pmMe
she’s talking about it in therapy i’m sure
as she should
it brings up all kinds of things
which is interesting
2:13pmJoe
I would…early in a relationship I would take it as a rejection
but that’s me
2:14pmMe
well i’ve made it as clear as i can that it isn’t one.
2:14pmJoe
words, words, words
2:14pmMe
didn’t say just verbally
2:14pmJoe
be careful
2:15pmMe
and this is in the context of bringing someone else in potentially, for fun… not like… each of us going out and scoring some new partner
i am being careful
2:15pmJoe
but who?
2:15pmMe
who knows.. that hasn’t been a part of the discussion and i kind of dont want it to be
its not about ‘its real and making it happen’…
2:16pmJoe
you better shut up
sounds kind of stupid to me
2:16pmMe
why?
i mean not that i’m disagreeing
2:16pmJoe
It is a threat to your relationship
2:16pmMe
only if she thinks i’m looking for a reason to leave
2:17pmJoe
if something like that happens organically that’s one thing
or if you all meet someone you are both into…i had a girl friend like that we’d share men
2:17pmMe
well, does it happen organically if there haven’t been some kind of conversation about that stuff in general?
yeah… i mean if it were to happen, i wouldn’t be the one to ‘choose’ or whatever…
2:17pmJoe
can’t you wait until it happens to dialog
not good casual conversation…it sounds with my women ears like a fear of commitment
2:19pmMe
well you have more experience around the concept than i do… do you think it would have been better/worse had you had a discussion about how each side felt about the prospect ?
maybe i do have a fear of commitment on some level… who knows. but why does commitment have to equal commitment to lifetime sexual exclusivity\
2:20pmJoe
I wouldn’t have brought it up, ever…I’d let it happen if it were meant to be from all perspectives
you are too early in the relationship to be so concerned with that question at all
you haven’t established commitment yet in your relationship
2:21pmMe
well its not like i’m interested in taking any action one way or the other at any time soon around it
2:21pmJoe
it isn’t verbal…it is time and actions
2:21pmMe
its an interesting point
maybe i’m being impatient
2:22pmJoe
yeah
the fact that you are thinking this way could be a deeper sign that you are not satisfied sexually or engaged in her
it is work to be in a committed relationship
2:23pmMe
thats a separate conversation that we’re both dealing with
not a problem, but some stuff we both need to adjust for
i know its work
believe me
2:24pmJoe
…just when you think the work is done…there is always more
2:24pmMe
i mean… it takes effort… that doesn’t make it WORK necessarily
well the same thing goes for being alive
2:24pmJoe
right
2:24pmMe
but it beats the alternative
2:24pmJoe
that’s right
and they must balance to your partner
2:25pmMe
we’re workingon it
theres some health things and some self-confidence things and some safety things
er… emotional safety
as there tend to be
2:25pmJoe
take your time with all of those
2:25pmMe
trying
i dont think either of us are 100% satisfied, but i think we both see the potential in our sexual connection
which is the importnt thing
or, an important thing
2:26pmJoe
yeah
100 % is not the goal
enjoying the moment and hearing each other takes the most time
we’re all pretty stupid when it comes to living together
2:27pmMe
indeed
2:28pmJoe
Nic and I whittle away at our problems a little bit at a time
after 6 years we’re better at it
2:28pmMe
yeah we do that too… i mean overall we’ve very communicative… almost too much, sometiems
we spend lots of time talking about our relationship
2:29pmJoe
right…I keep my mouth shut a lot of times…I get my needs met
but because I am more mature
I can wait…I always give Nic first bitch rights
2:31pmMe
right
2:32pmJoe
I ask for attention when I need it and vice versa…you are always teaching your partner about yourself…
2:32pmMe
indeed
2:32pmJoe
they cannot read your mind
ever
2:32pmMe
no
all this i know
2:32pmJoe
you can’t know it enough
2:32pmMe
i may not be as much of a talker as you, my friend, but i share as much as i can
2:33pmJoe
I bet you’re more of a talker than you know…mr. thirdpersoninbed.
2:34pmMe
well
i dont know, its not even like… ‘i want to have a threesome tomorrow!’…
2:34pmJoe
to you
2:34pmMe
i’ve been thinking of it more in terms of ‘i want to have a partner that i can explore and have fun with in as many ways as we both feel comfortable with’
2:35pmJoe
move to california and get you a hippy girl
2:35pmMe
i’m already maybe moving to seattle with this girl

2:35pmJoe
and even then it’ll have to be a few years into the relationship
seattle is not cali
2:35pmMe
no
2:35pmJoe
much more conservative
2:35pmMe
this is who i want to be with, full stop
2:36pmJoe
maybe hetero S&M could be good
there are a lot of clubs for that
2:36pmMe
whether that ends up including other people or not is nto my primary concern
2:36pmJoe
and it invites other’s by its nature
2:36pmMe
yeah neither of us are into pain games or power games tho only into getting lol boost services from p4rgaming.com.
2:36pmJoe
lol
how do you know
2:36pmMe
maybe because we got into the relationship part of the relationship quickly (not TOO quickly, but quickly) that it has created an illusion that we’re further along in terms of our commitment and safety with each other than we actually are…
2:37pmJoe
that’s right
2:37pmMe
well if talking about the concept of monogamy in society as it relates to our relationship has tweaked her this much, i dont know how ‘hey honey, wanna go to an s&m club?’ is gonna work out
2:37pmJoe
I’ve done that…there is what we think, and then what we are capable of and rarely to they connect
lol…well you start at home…like a hobby
then you go to a convention, then maybe with some other couple
then to a club
you do b line…a lot
don’t not with a relationship
take your time
2:39pmMe
b line?
2:39pmJoe
and enjoy it…don’t cut to the end
b line…shortest point between two objects
2:39pmMe
bee line
yeah i’ve always wanted to skip the beginnings of relationships because thats where the most opportunity for uncertainty is
2:39pmJoe
bee lines are swiggily
2:40pmMe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beeline
i didn’t make it up
heh
2:40pmJoe
I don’t doubt it
it’s an old term
the uncertainty is the relationship
you can’t wash over your fears with manly bravado
she can’t get to know you
you can’t get to know her
no trust do you build
Yoda Line Bee
2:43pmMe
old habits.
2:48pmJoe
time and space
2:52pmMe
indeed
<=- only child. i want what i want when i want ti
it
2:52pmJoe
it is hard for us
2:53pmMe
no pun intended
2:53pmJoe
?
I would focus on trying to connect to her
and going further than you have ever imagined to please her
2:54pmMe
i do that anyway

2:54pmJoe
you think you do
2:54pmMe
i’m not trying to make this happen right now
2:54pmJoe
it doesn’t sound like it
then it isn’t happening
2:54pmMe
well all you know of the situation is this one issue i’m bringing up
2:54pmJoe
done
2:54pmMe
i mean that and our cutesy facebook messages
heh
2:54pmJoe
I’ll talk to you later
2:56pmMe
thanks for your advice

====

14:00
(14:03:21) jeremystudiod: what do you think about monogamy as a social construct? does it go against our more fundamental nature and are we just kidding ourselves by thinking we can be happy with a single sexual partner over a long period of time?
(14:03:42) thecrownjoel: is this like a mass message
(14:03:43) thecrownjoel: or just to me
(14:03:58) jeremystudiod: not mass, but to a few people i’m interesting in hearing from on the topic
(14:04:04) thecrownjoel: i cant speak for females
(14:04:08) thecrownjoel: i can guess about males
(14:04:09) jeremystudiod: wasn’t asking you to 🙂
(14:04:12) thecrownjoel: but i can definitely answer about myself
(14:04:28) thecrownjoel: id like to have a partner in life
(14:04:34) thecrownjoel: but id also like to have sex with tons of women
(14:04:49) thecrownjoel: i think it goes against my personal nature to be in a committed relationship
(14:04:56) thecrownjoel: but it also sucks more to be alone and without anyone
14:05
(14:05:24) thecrownjoel: now if u can cheat and not have it bother you
(14:05:31) jeremystudiod: no, i’m not talking about cheating
(14:05:32) thecrownjoel: i guess thats having your cake and eat it to
(14:05:40) thecrownjoel: i guess to answer your question
(14:05:41) thecrownjoel: yes
(14:05:51) thecrownjoel: IF
(14:05:57) thecrownjoel: you’re basing a relationship strictly on lust
(14:06:06) thecrownjoel: thats why i feel the core of a sucessfull relationship
(14:06:08) thecrownjoel: is friendship
(14:06:12) jeremystudiod: i’m talking about an open and honest communication adn agreement about the physical boundaries of an emotionally monogamous relationship
(14:06:34) thecrownjoel: what brought this on
(14:07:03) jeremystudiod: just something i’ve been thinkign about as a concept
(14:07:10) jeremystudiod: theres this new book out called Sex at Dawn
(14:08:16) jeremystudiod: which pretty explicitly lays out the argument that we are not meant to be monogamous creatures, that it is mainly a social construct, and that pre-agriculture, our ‘relationships’ were in small-to-medium sized groups where each member was committed to the health of the gruop as a whole, and ‘casual sex’ within the group was the norm
14:10
(14:11:53) jeremystudiod: i mean, whether thats true, and whether thats something thats even possible in our current social structure, who knows
(14:11:56) jeremystudiod: but its interesting

 

Written by admin

March 21st, 2011 at 11:55 pm

Posted in Women