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Archive for the ‘Women’ Category

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Jeremy Meyers

i was all touching up on ya last night, you were having none of it.

 

10:26

Kate Farina

i was asleep!

or mostly asleep

10:26

Jeremy Meyers

ok

 

10:27

Kate Farina

what time did you come to bed?

10:27

Jeremy Meyers

came and then left again

 

10:29

Kate Farina

ok i wasn’t sure. i thought maybe you left

10:34

Jeremy Meyers

yeah i did

to take care of business

 

10:37

Kate Farina

ok. sorry it was like 2 am and i had been sleepin for a bit

10:37

Jeremy Meyers

ok

11:03

Jeremy Meyers

meh

 

11:04

Kate Farina

 

11:05

Jeremy Meyers

frustrating.

 

11:06

Kate Farina

what is

11:06

Jeremy Meyers

a lot of things

 

11:06

Kate Farina

well of course it is frustrating when you put it that way

can we make time for cuddles and stuff

in bed

11:06

Jeremy Meyers

it just feels so broken

 

11:07

Kate Farina

what does

11:07

Jeremy Meyers

our physical passion for each other

 

11:07

Kate Farina

i don’t know what to do with “it just feels so broken”

11:08

Jeremy Meyers

you dont have to do anything with it

 

11:08

Kate Farina

i don’t have anything to do with our phsyical passion?

11:09

Jeremy Meyers

i dont know what to do with “i dont know what to do with”

 

11:09

Kate Farina

well it’s a pretty provocative statement

and i thought you don’t like “i just” statements

11:10

Jeremy Meyers

no

its that “i just wish that…” implies that the wish is something simple when its often something complicated.

 

11:13

Kate Farina

well having these kinds of conversations is part of why sex feels stressful to me

11:13

Jeremy Meyers

ok well then forget it

 

11:13

Kate Farina

because i feel like “this better go well or jeremy will say our passion is broken”

so i don’t know how to have open communication about it like thist

11:13

Jeremy Meyers

ok seriously forget i said anything

 

11:14

Kate Farina

it fucking HURTS when you throw bombs like that

and i’m PISSED AT YOU

11:14

Jeremy Meyers

i take it all back. everythings fine

 

11:14

Kate Farina

you make me feel like shit sometimes

i’m sorry. i’m just sick of this aspect of our relationship

i felt so close to you while we were in new york

and as soon as we got back stuff changed again

11:15

Jeremy Meyers

you went back to school and worked and then came home and worked and didn’t like sleeping and i was frustrated with my own life and here we are again.

 

11:17

Kate Farina

i love you so much, but sometimes this stuff is just so hard to deal with

11:17

Jeremy Meyers

yeah

 

11:18

Kate Farina

i’m sorry i blew up

11:18

Jeremy Meyers

thats fine

do what you need to do

but if i can’t bring it up lest it stress you out, and you dont bring it up other than to respond to me saying that its a lot of pressure for you, i dont know where that leaves us.

 

11:20

Kate Farina

i know. i get it

11:20

Jeremy Meyers

i dont think i’m being unreasonable and i’m not sure why you feel so much pressure to be perfect or whatever

 

11:20

Kate Farina

but “i feel like our physical relationship is broken” isn’t exactly a helpful place to start

11:20

Jeremy Meyers

thats not where its started. its every time we talka bout it for years now

i’m not sure how much responsibility i can take for or how helpful i can be in addressing that particular aspect of your baggage

 

11:21

Kate Farina

this isn’t just about my baggage

or your baggage

this is stuff that has been happening in this relationship

unique to this relationship

11:22

Jeremy Meyers

it comes from somewhere.

i’ve never asked you to live up to a particular standard, and yet you’re terrified of “not performing well enough for me”

that doesn’t come from me.

 

11:22

Kate Farina

but maybe it’s BECAUSE of stuff that happens in our relationship that i feel that way

maybe it’s because most of our conversations are about how bad our sex life is

11:24

Jeremy Meyers

ok well i take it back then. but i dont know how to fix things without talking about them. it doens’t seem like not talking about things that are challenging makes them any better.

 

11:24

Kate Farina

we need to talk about negative stuff, yes. of course. but maybe we need to talk about positive stuff too

or give each other positive encouragement or feedback

11:25

Jeremy Meyers

are you kidding? i feel like we do that all the time

i’m constantly supportive of you

i help you with your homework, i listen to your stories

 

11:25

Kate Farina

i mean in sex stuff

11:25

Jeremy Meyers

and i’m happy to do it whenever i can

 

11:26

Kate Farina

specifically

we do that all the time except in our sex conversations

11:26

Jeremy Meyers

i try to involve you with my online flirting and stuff

 

11:27

Kate Farina

ok, that might do it for you, but maybe it doesn’t for me

in the same way

11:27

Jeremy Meyers

or at all

 

11:27

Kate Farina

i’m not saying “at all”

11:27

Jeremy Meyers

ok

 

11:27

Kate Farina

and i’m not just talking about the act of flirting

i mean just in our conversations about our sex life

maybe we need to start with good things

11:29

Jeremy Meyers

 

11:30

Kate Farina

i mean, “i like when you ____. it was fun when we ______”

i say that we should make time to get into bed earlier and i get hit with “our physical intimacy is broken.”

11:34

Jeremy Meyers

it wasn’t a response to your suggestion

 

11:34

Kate Farina

it seemed that way

11:34

Jeremy Meyers

in any case i said ‘physical passion for each other’

two way street

not ‘you are messing up my sex life’

i dont even really know how you feel other than you hate when i bring it up

 

11:36

Kate Farina

then maybe ask how i feel without it being a lament about our sex life

i mean that sincerely  not snarky

11:38

Jeremy Meyers

 

11:38

Kate Farina

i guess that’s what i’m saying about not starting the conversation from a negative place

11:38

Jeremy Meyers

i feel like if i dont start it it would never get started

 

11:38

Kate Farina

if you don’t what?

11:38

Jeremy Meyers

and i don’t know how it became my issue

that you get hurt by

 

11:39

Kate Farina

what issue?

talking about it?

11:39

Jeremy Meyers

the state of our sex life

whatever it is

 

11:40

Kate Farina

it’s not “your” issue

11:40

Jeremy Meyers

ok

 

11:40

Kate Farina

it’s our issue

11:40

Jeremy Meyers

feels like it

 

11:40

Kate Farina

are you kidding?

11:40

Jeremy Meyers

if i were you i’d be fucking pissed that you werent getting fucked more often. i’d be demanding it.

 

11:41

Kate Farina

you mean because of the prostate thing?

11:41

Jeremy Meyers

what?

 

11:42

Kate Farina

are you saying it’s your issue because of that?

i’m confused

11:42

Jeremy Meyers

no

because i bring it up

 

11:42

Kate Farina

no. i assume you bring it up because it is my issue

11:42

Jeremy Meyers

well maybe i should stop and see what happens

since i dont seem to be helping

 

11:43

Kate Farina

are you hearing me?

er…reading me?

i’m not saying that we shouldn’t talk about it

11:43

Jeremy Meyers

yes, you think i bring it up because i want to complain about you not putting out

or whatever, however you want to phrase it

 

11:43

Kate Farina

sometimes yeah

isn’t that kind of the truth?

11:44

Jeremy Meyers

if you dont want to fuck me, we can address that.

 

11:44

Kate Farina

you bring it up when you’re frustrated with me

right?

11:45

Jeremy Meyers

not just.

but i am often frustrated about that part

becuase it seems like you say you want to more than you actually want to

or  can bring yourself to act on

or respond to

even now that you’re off birth control

 

11:48

Kate Farina

i don’t think there’s one major reason

i think it’s a combination of things

which isn’t a satisfying answer

but i think it’s mostly about being stressed and busy…about feeling lonely…and being at a point in our relationship where things feel kind of stagnant

11:52

Jeremy Meyers

because we’re not married?

 

11:52

Kate Farina

no

i just mean being in a long term relationship

11:52

Jeremy Meyers

so your’e bored?

i mean, thats fine

 

11:52

Kate Farina

i don’t really know how to  do that, in terms of sex

11:53

Jeremy Meyers

i dont think the answer is to have less sex

 

11:53

Kate Farina

and i’m not saying i’m bored of you sexually. because i feel like we really have only begun to explore

11:53

Jeremy Meyers

or to do fewer new things

 

11:54

Kate Farina

there is stuff i want to say but it is hard

11:54

Jeremy Meyers

now or in general

 

11:54

Kate Farina

i don’t want to hurt you

11:54

Jeremy Meyers

i love being intimate with you but i dont really feel like you’ve been into me specifically sexually for awhile, as much as enjoying the opportunity to have sex when you can

 

11:55

Kate Farina

i do love being intimate with you too

11:55

Jeremy Meyers

and if thats true, then we need to address it one way or another

its hurting me when we just dont do it at all, too.

 

11:55

Kate Farina

but for a big chunk of our relationship (more so lately), i think you’ve been down or depressed or something along those lines

and sometimes you are the most loving, sweetest person

like this past weekend

and i wanted to jump your bones

but sometimes you just seem so down. and even though you might grab my butt or whatever, i just don’t feel that spark

11:57

Jeremy Meyers

so your’e saying i’m too sad and not ind enough of the time for you to want to have sex with me?

 

11:58

Kate Farina

it is not easy to explain

i’m trying

11:58

Jeremy Meyers

ok

 

11:58

Kate Farina

i am crying in here ok?

11:59

Jeremy Meyers

we can change the subject

i just want to know whats really going on

 

11:59

Kate Farina

?

11:59

Jeremy Meyers

because i’ve felt pretty rejected a lot of the time

12:00

Thursday, November 29, 2012

 

12:00

Kate Farina

it just has not been that easy for me

it’s really hard to put into words

everything i say is sounding wrong

12:01

Jeremy Meyers

take your time

 

12:02

Kate Farina

i have watched you go through some difficult stuff

and there were/are some times when i’m frustrated that i just try to bury

sometimes you being depressed does affect my desire for you i guess

12:05

Jeremy Meyers

do you think i’m depressed now?

 

12:05

Kate Farina

yes

12:05

Jeremy Meyers

well you’re wrong

 

12:05

Kate Farina

sometimes

well i suggested that last year and you also said i was wrong

i’m not a therapist. i don’t know

12:06

Jeremy Meyers

no.

 

12:06

Kate Farina

but i do spend a lot of time around you

12:06

Jeremy Meyers

so i’m sad so you dont want to have sex

ok

 

12:06

Kate Farina

jeremy

you complain about me being defensive during these difficult conversation

s

12:07

Jeremy Meyers

i’m just trying to figure out whats really going on

you’ve seen me go through some difficult stuff, and my life is not where i want it to be, so you dont feel attracted to me because sometimes i’m sad

thats what i’m getting

tell me if i’m wrong

 

12:08

Kate Farina

it’s not a blanket thing

it’s not an if then statement or whatever

but i think it has been a factor

you treat me differently when your mood changes

which i get. that’s natural

12:09

Jeremy Meyers

everyone treats everyone differently when their mood changes

 

12:09

Kate Farina

yes i know

when you act all loving to me, it is a turn on

12:10

Jeremy Meyers

it can’t be the only turn-on. i always love you, i dont always feel shmoopy, and i dont always feel shmoopy when i’m also horny.

 

12:11

Kate Farina

i’m not saying it’s the only turn on

12:12

Jeremy Meyers

ok

 

12:12

Kate Farina

just giving an example

12:12

Jeremy Meyers

brb

 

12:14

Kate Farina

i’m sorry. i don’t have a good sensible explanation

12:14

Jeremy Meyers

well maybe you could make me a list

so i know what to do

because it feels pretty broken to me right now.

 

12:14

Kate Farina

i know sometimes i really do desire you. sometimes i don’t feel it as strongly

12:15

Jeremy Meyers

and maybe trying to spare my feelings isn’t actually working how you want it to work

because it just makes me feel like you either dont want to have sex or you do but not with me or you do but not with me how we do it.

but you wont just say any of those things

 

12:15

Kate Farina

ps…data is o this episode of friends

12:15

Jeremy Meyers

ok

 

12:16

Kate Farina

i am really reluctant to say some things, yes

12:16

Jeremy Meyers

has that ever worked in our relationship?

 

12:16

Kate Farina

because you might feel hurt

12:17

Jeremy Meyers

fuck it

then i’ll feel hurt

and i’ll yell and be pissed

i’d rather be pissed than feel nothing

or feel like theres nothing actually being communicated

other than you keeping your legs tightly together when i’m touching you

like you’re waiting for me to stop

i understand your’e stressed and super busy with school and we’re just getting settled. i just want to figure out what’s really going on

and it feels like you’re just not that interested

and if thats the case, then we need to figure something out

 

12:21

Kate Farina

well, to be fair, sometimes post-midnight is not exactly the best time for me

12:22

Jeremy Meyers

ah but thats my fault because you wait for me tos ay when we should go to bed because you dont like sleeping

for whatever reason

i’m trying to be kind here but i’m also pissed and frustrated and hurt

 

12:22

Kate Farina

STOP REPHRASING THINGS AS ME BLAMING YOU

12:23

Jeremy Meyers

then what

 

12:23

Kate Farina

the late night thing is my problem too

i love you. like, as much as one person can love another. but there have been some difficult times in the course of our relationship. maybe that has affected some stuff for me. maybe part of it is just being with one person for several years.

12:26

Jeremy Meyers

what do you mean specifically by ‘affected some stuff’

your feelings for me are not in question

 

12:26

Kate Farina

i don’t know. maybe i resent you

12:27

Jeremy Meyers

ok

for what

or why

 

12:27

Kate Farina

i hate this

12:28

Jeremy Meyers

just say what you want to say

would you rather talk than type?

 

12:28

Kate Farina

i’ll just cry

12:28

Jeremy Meyers

up to you

but if you resent me, thats a big thing

thats a poison

 

12:30

Kate Farina

i don’t know. i don’t really know if that’s true

i think i might have for awhile when we were still in new york

12:30

Jeremy Meyers

few things are more toxic to a relationship

if not that then what

hello?

 

12:36

Kate Farina

i don’t know what to type

i don’t feel like there’s a poison in our relationship

12:36

Jeremy Meyers

ok

 

12:37

Kate Farina

but i just don’t feel like a fiery passion, at least not all of  the time

12:38

Jeremy Meyers

yes, thats what relationships do

 

12:38

Kate Farina

well how do people deal with it

12:38

Jeremy Meyers

they fuck more

and do different things

and make it a priority

and sometimes they cheat

and sometimes they bring another girl or guy home

once the initial crush + infatuation/novelty wears off and is replaced with bonding stuff then its less ‘fiery all the time’

real life comes in, and soon enough you’re washing each others underpants or whatever

i dont know, kate, i’ve never been in a relationship for more than a year, and that one shouldve ended after six months and she cheated on me constantly

but i do know that the solution to not feeling limerance anymore isn’t to pair rejecting me with trying to protect my feelings about it by not talking about it

unless you wantt o have a lot more conversations like this.

 

12:42

Kate Farina

sometimes i think about the first few month of our relationship and i get sad

12:43

Jeremy Meyers

nobody keeps having as much sex as they did in the first few months of their relationsip

ship

ask anyone you know

we hardly knew anything about each other other than we liked each other a lot and wanted to be naked all the time

thats brain chemicals

you know…the seven year itch/

 

12:45

Kate Farina

yeah

12:49

Jeremy Meyers

so you’re over it

or something

 

12:50

Kate Farina

i’m over it?

12:51

Jeremy Meyers

i dont knwo

 

12:51

Kate Farina

over our relationship?

i’m not over our relationship

12:51

Jeremy Meyers

i’m not sure how to interpret what you’re saying other than the implication that you’re kinda meh on the whole lust factor with me

 

12:52

Kate Farina

do you feel lust for me?

12:53

Jeremy Meyers

sometimes but its hard when it doesn’t feel like you’re particularly receptive to it

whether thats real or imagined

 

12:53

Kate Farina

well in weird way i feel that way too

except i get that you’re physically receptive

ok, i think you will take issue with me saying this, but i just feel like you’re sometimes in a bad mood

12:56

Jeremy Meyers

i am a person. i am sometimes in a bad mood

 

12:56

Kate Farina

yes but, to me, it seems like more than that

and i think it has affected our relationship, or how i relate to you

doesn’t mean i don’t love you

12:58

Jeremy Meyers

you, also, are sometimes in a bad mood. or a stressed mood. or a busy mood

if you want to be with someone who’se never in a bad mood, i could get some uppers

 

12:58

Kate Farina

yeah, but jeremy, you seriously don’t think that you’ve been down for a while?

12:59

Jeremy Meyers

down is different than depressed

 

12:59

Kate Farina

i’m not using the word depressed

at this point

12:59

Jeremy Meyers

i’ve been down because i’ve had nothing going on

other than oyu

you

 

12:59

Kate Farina

ok well that is a tricky situation for both of us

1:00

Jeremy Meyers

i understand if you want to pull away from me.

do you think all that we’ve gone through in our relationship is too much?

 

1:00

Kate Farina

it just seems like i get the silent/upset treatment fairly often

1:01

Jeremy Meyers

i never learned how to be mad at someone

because it didn’t make a difference

or i got my stuff broken

or hit

or yelled at right back

so i just STFU.

couples fight and then they make up. if you think you can find someone that you can have a relationship and never fight, then by all means.

 

1:02

Kate Farina

i’m not saying we should never fight

but when you shut me out, it hurts and i don’t know what to do and that’s when i get so pissed at you

it’s like you become a different person

1:03

Jeremy Meyers

no. i’m the same person but angry.

you have been a huge part of my social experience the last few years and here in a new place especially.  now you are spending all day at school and then you come home and do homework and then go to sleep. and then dont want to invite friends over because you see them all the time. can you see how it would make me lonely and hurt and resentful, even though i support you and you going to school?

 

1:04

Kate Farina

so you resent me now?

1:04

Jeremy Meyers

and then to basically not want to be physical with me because i’m too sad?

and because things arent how they used to be?

sometimes. but thats my fault for not having a more diverse life right now.

i get that my life doesn’t exist in a vacuum and that it affects you too

i just dont know what to do now.

 

1:08

Kate Farina

i guess this is a rough patch

1:08

Jeremy Meyers

i wish you would have said these things before.

rather than trying to protect me

that never works.

never.

 

1:09

Kate Farina

well i’m not good at being direct with people, especially with negative stuff

1:09

Jeremy Meyers

i’m not people.

 

1:11

Kate Farina

well

what should we do

1:11

Jeremy Meyers

i dont know.

 

1:12

Kate Farina

i love you. i don’t want this to ruin our relationship

1:12

Jeremy Meyers

ok

i dont either

we’ll have to fix it.

 

1:13

Kate Farina

o

k

1:14

Jeremy Meyers

i have no further wisdom

or anything, really

we’ll figure it out

we always do, dont we

 

1:18

Kate Farina

well it’s 1:18

i guess we have so far

1:18

Jeremy Meyers

or maybe i only thought we did

 

1:19

Kate Farina

we have made it through stuff that would have broken other people up

1:19

Jeremy Meyers

how do you feel?

 

1:19

Kate Farina

terrible

1:19

Jeremy Meyers

me too.

 

1:20

Kate Farina

this is why i don’t like to talk about difficult stuff

1:20

Jeremy Meyers

kate its not fucking better to keep it to yourself

 

1:20

Kate Farina

i’m not saying it is

i’m saying that this terrible feeling is probably why i do keep it in

1:21

Jeremy Meyers

if we’d been talking about it the whole time it wouldn’t have to have been a four hour fight

 

1:22

Kate Farina

or would it be a fight that went on for three years?

1:22

Jeremy Meyers

thats your mom talking.

sorry that wasn’t fair

i’d rather you bring stuff up and have it be a little difficult every once in awhile than keep it to yourself and have it be awful all at once.

 

1:24

Kate Farina

i know

1:25

Jeremy Meyers

not to pile on.

 

1:26

Kate Farina

i think i need to get some sleep

1:27

Jeremy Meyers

ok

i’ll be in shortly

if thats okay

 

1:37

Kate Farina

i can’t seem to get myself off the couch

1:37

Jeremy Meyers

that’s okay too

 

1:38

Kate Farina

can we hug?

1:38

Jeremy Meyers

i need a minute to finish something then of course

 

1:38

Kate Farina

i’m gonna brush my teeth

Written by admin

November 29th, 2012 at 11:03 am

Posted in Kate

Late night letter to kate

leave a comment

 

Ok, well I'm glad you told me in whatever way you feel comfortable. I
will leave it to you to work out your own stuff and you can let me
know if there's something I can do to help. I honestly don't feel any
pressure or resentment. That is something I worked on in therapy,
because for a long time I think I was too reliant on you making some
move that would get me out of my crappy situation. In the end, I
needed to do something for myself. And it's the same for you, I think.

Honestly, this frustrated me for a long time. It's hard to just want
someone to be happy, or feel fulfilled, and have that drawn out for
several years. Obviously that's not as hard as going through it
yourself. But I hope you believe me when I say that I just want you to
be satisfied and challenged and all that good stuff. However you get
there is fine with me. You know that.

As for the other stuff (sorry to be vague, but I'm in class), I'm not
sure what to say that hasn't already been said. I'm kind of tired of
having this same conversation because I feel like it's also causing
some of my issues of feeling like I need to "please you" or whatever.
I will try to start Opening Up this weekend. I hope that might help us
to have a different kind of conversation. Because I keep feeling like
I'm in this loop where you tell me you're unhappy about something and
I feel like I need to do something about it to "keep you" or make you
feel better.

gotta go

On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 4:31 AM, Jeremy Meyers <softlord@pobox.com> wrote:
Dearest Kate-

So, here’s why I was up late last night.  I had some some stuff that’s been
bubbling under the surface (and sometimes not under the surface).  I know we
said we’d check in with each other, so here’s some stuff that’s going on
with me that for whatever reason I haven’t talked about or been able to
crystallize my thoughts on.  There are no huge life-changing bombshells in
here, and I’m not leaving, so don’t worry.

When I decided to move here with you, I knew that your schooling and the
program would be your priority.  This is the deal that I accepted, because I
love and support you and this is what you should be doing.  I did a lot of
reading on “what its like when your partner goes to grad school”, and
thought I was prepared.

However, I think a side effect of this is that its put into further stark
relief how unsatisfied I am with my life and what i’m doing with it. I’ve
basically been treading water since my Waggener job ended, to varying
degrees.  I know we’ve talked about it, but I’m not sure I’ve really
processed the full extent of my feelings on the subject.

I’ve always held that a healthy relationship consists of three parts.
Yourself, the other person, and your relationship.  I feel like I’ve lost my
own life momentum as you are gaining yours, and I’m not happy about it.

I’ve become acutely aware of how much of my own life (as distinct from our
life together) now revolves around you and your schedule and spending time
with you.  Obviously, I like spending time with you.  However, I’m very
frustrated that my life right now is about spending a lot of my time doing
freelance stuff while waiting for you to get home.

You’re the only person I’ve spent any significant time with since we got
here (and even for a long time before we moved). This leads to me wanting
distance sometimes, even when I don’t specifically want to “not be around
you”.

I love you and our time together, but I am also lonely, unchallenged and
under-stimulated a lot of the time.  Even before we were together I was
basically spending most of my time at home and alone, so this is not new
behavior.  I don’t think I’ve really let that sink in without trying to
explain it away or feel guilty because of some fantasy implications about
our relationship, when its not about our relationship.

None of this is news to you, obviously. I’m reticent to dwell on it too much
with you because I don’t want you to feel any pressure from me or that I
harbor any resentment toward you about your schooling.  I appreciate all the
support you’ve given me on this front and I’m sure I’ll be leaning on you
for more in the future.  I don’t, and I don’t want your priorities to shift.
It’s all on me to lead and theres nothing for you to adjust, I don’t think.
I dont know if theres anything specific I want you to do to help, either.

The thing is, I suck at doing stuff for me.  I’ve always been bad at it. I
don’t like making doctors appointments, I even put off bullshit stuff like
haircuts, and i’ve always fallen into jobs or relationships and left them
way after it was really time.  This is something that I really dislike about
myself, and though I have the rare moment of clarity about them, most of the
time i’m in a fog of ‘well what if thats not the right thing’ and disgust at
this stupid fucking habit getting the best of me while time in this life is
so short.  The phrase “wasted potential” comes up a lot.

So, thats something I’m going to figure out. I’m not sure how yet but I will
(and I have some ideas that i need to actually DO), because continuing on
how I have been is not sustainable and is only hurting me and by extension
our relationship, which is too important to me to fuck up now.

Other things....

It makes me sad that there are things that you’re ashamed of or deep dark
secrets that you still don’t feel comfortable enough to share with me,
things that could bring us closer together.

It makes me sad that you say you don’t treat yourself very kindly.  I want
to support you as much as I can, though I’m not sure what I can do or
whether it’s even my place, or if anything I could say would help you in
that respect.  But if there is, I will do it.

It makes me sad that after this much time we’re still so delicate with each
other sexually and can’t figure out a way to be more overtly sexual (or as
you say ‘sluttier’, though i’m not sure thats exactly accurate in my mind
and maybe thats part of the “problem”, framing being more overtly sexual as
a charged word like ‘slutty’).  These are things that I struggle with
internally.

I want to figure out why, I want to break through, I want to be way kinkier
and more spontaneous and adventurous than we’ve ever been.

I get frustrated, however, when it feels to me like you’re not being very
proactive with your needs and instead focusing on being accommodating and
reactive.  This is, I think, a theme that I’ve been struggling with trying
to accurately and specifically identify.  I’m not sure I have it precisely
right, but here’s what I’ve come up with.

It seems (from my POV at least) like you sometimes go into situations (be
they sexytimes or otherwise) with the attitude of not wanting to “disappoint
me”. That makes it very difficult for me (and you too, I suspect) to engage
in the moment.  For me it feels like it raises the stakes of every
interaction. It relies on you then feeling like you’re doing what I’d want
or what you think I’d expect, or deferring to my request or preference.
Then if I’m doing something outside of that or not providing or following
the right script, theres no way to communicate it without maybe ruining the
moment or risking the very thing you’re trying to avoid?

It also doesn’t leave room for your actual needs wants and desires to be
communicated or to happen, so maybe you’re ‘stuck’ with either me guesing or
you not getting precisely what you want out of the interaction, or more
often its me asking what you wanna do and getting frustrated, or you asking
what I want to do and me getting frustrated.  No good.

I’m not sure what the path to get to a better place about this is.  I can
hear your response already “well you don’t say what you want either”. I hear
what you’re saying, but I’m not sure that would help given the dynamic (not
that its the easiest thing for me either). This kind of stuff has us stuck,
and it needs to change.

One of the reasons I’ve been encouraging us both to read Opening Up is
because there’s a lot of stuff in there about sexual communication and
templates and things, and maybe that will help, er, open us up, regardless
of whether it leads to a restructuring of our monogamy boundaries.  In fact
it would probably be helpful to separate out the reading from any commitment
to opensexytimes, which is perfectly fine with me.

Some of the local people I’ve been talking to on OKC (and some that we’ve
been talking to together) seem like they’d be fun to hang out with even if
we dont end up getting naked with them.  I’m just not sure whether you’d be
okay with that happening, be i together or me by myself...I’m trying to make
friends on my own here too.

I’ve been thinking about it a bit and as much as i want to be having hot
threesomes and moresomes and meeting fun couples to play with and stuff, I’m
not sure given all the other stuff above that I’m even in the right
headspace to share that adventure and have it be sustainable.  I guess we’ll
see.

As pervy and kinky as i am, I'm also bored and lonely as I said, which is
possibly not the ideal situation to begin such things.  I don’t know,
though.  I just know that it’s really most important to me that it be
something that we're both excited about, or at least honestly open to
independently rather than you doing it because of how i feel about it or
that same sense of not wanting to disappoint me if you don't like it.

Well, now it’s late, I’ve been wrigting this letter for 3 hours and you
probably think I’m mad at you.  Well, I’m not.  I just needed to get this
out.

My love always

-Jeremy

Momo
— — Kate Farina Graduate Student, Digital Media Department Georgia Institute of Technology 347 306 7954 katefarina@gmail.com @katefarina

Written by admin

October 30th, 2012 at 9:40 am

Posted in Kate

advice junkie

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(12:39:37 PM) jeremystudiod: i’m such an advice junkie
(12:39:41 PM) jeremystudiod: (12:37:04 PM) aardvark@d9.vark.com: (From Allison O./26/F/Washington,DC)
how can I be more open to dating, when I am an independent woman who works full time and is generally thinks most men are lame

(Type ‘pass’ to skip, or ‘more’ for extra options.)
(12:39:54 PM) jeremystudiod: (12:39:22 PM) jeremystudiod: it sounds like you may need to take a look at yourself and what might be holding you back from being more open to the opportunities that come your way. In my mind ‘independent’ (not that there’s anything wrong with that) can also be a euphemism for ‘closed off to connection’. Being in a relationship doesn’t mean you won’t still be driven and in charge of your own life, but ideally it means you’re part of a team, too. Most men may be lame, but going into each new experience expecting lameness will probably get you exactly what you think you’re going to get. Lameness can be an interesting learning experience in figuring out what you want and don’t want. I hope this is helpful!
12:40
(12:40:31 PM) kate9881: um
(12:40:40 PM) kate9881: you are a very strange man
(12:40:58 PM) jeremystudiod: why am i strange? helping people feels good
(12:41:16 PM) jeremystudiod: if more people helped each other, the world would be a better place
(12:41:39 PM) kate9881: i just find it funny/endearing that you take time to try and help people with relationship problems
(12:42:16 PM) kate9881: that’s not the advice i would have given though
(12:42:21 PM) jeremystudiod: no? what would you have said?
(12:42:45 PM) jeremystudiod: its not just relationship problems…i just happen to have my aardvark profile set to answer questions about relationships, amongst other things
(12:42:54 PM) kate9881: yeah i know
(12:42:59 PM) kate9881: 80s movies, remember
(12:43:09 PM) jeremystudiod: i’m interested in how people interact with each other, and what holds them back from experiencing things fully
(12:44:11 PM) kate9881: personally, i think that anyone who takes the step of asking such a question on aardvark is not closed off
(12:44:24 PM) kate9881: she probably has just recently experienced some jerks
(12:44:44 PM) kate9881: and the only thing you can do is keep putting yourself out there
12:45
(12:45:02 PM) jeremystudiod: well… being self-aware about it certainly leads to asking the question… i meant closed-off as in expecting to be let down, not like… shut down to everything
(12:45:27 PM) kate9881: well
(12:45:48 PM) kate9881: i don’t necessarily think its the same thing
(12:45:56 PM) kate9881: she didn’t write enough to know
(12:45:59 PM) jeremystudiod: no
(12:46:13 PM) kate9881: but i just think it sounds like she’s had a string of duds
(12:46:43 PM) kate9881: and it’s hard to go in with optimism every time you have a first date or whatever
(12:46:45 PM) jeremystudiod: it just seemed like she was in that mindset where its like ‘im out here on my own living my life, and i want a boyfriend, but everyone i meet sucks’
(12:48:03 PM) jeremystudiod: but maybe i couldve been ‘dont let the last few guys lameness get you down, the right one is out there’
(12:48:32 PM) jeremystudiod: i just think its interesting, the specific details people include in questions like that… like… whats the most important thing someone needs to know about me in order to give me advice
(12:48:41 PM) kate9881: right
(12:48:43 PM) jeremystudiod: the things she put were ‘independent’ ‘works full time’ ‘most men are lame’
(12:48:56 PM) kate9881: but i think that that’s common to like 99% of all single women
(12:49:10 PM) jeremystudiod: which to me means that she doesn’t want to be ‘tied down’ with a relationship, she has her own life and her own priorities, and hasn’t found someone who meets her expectations
(12:49:43 PM) kate9881: not necessarily
12:50
(12:50:03 PM) kate9881: look, i would’ve said the same thing, like immediately before we started going out
(12:50:47 PM) jeremystudiod: of course
(12:51:54 PM) jeremystudiod: i just think its always valuable to take a second and say ‘well, when i say im independent, what does that really mean in terms of what i want from a relationship and from a potential partner. Is that a valuable definition or are parts of it contributing to me not being in a relationship’
(12:53:23 PM) kate9881: i guess. but i mean, i never had that conversation with myself
(12:53:38 PM) jeremystudiod: not that thers like… something wrong with being independent
(12:53:59 PM) jeremystudiod: well she doesn’t have to take my advice 🙂
12:55
(12:56:23 PM) kate9881: i guess i just think that some people probably need to do figure out some stuff for themselves or whatever, but sometimes it just works out
(12:56:31 PM) kate9881: without all the personal soulsearching
(12:56:43 PM) jeremystudiod: right
(12:56:45 PM) kate9881: it just has to be the right time for both people
(12:56:57 PM) kate9881: and the right two people
(12:57:11 PM) kate9881: and if she keeps looking, she’ll probably find a good one
(12:57:18 PM) jeremystudiod: yeah but i think maybe you dont give yourself enough credit for being open to the possibility at the beginning
(12:57:24 PM) kate9881: the more she looks, the more she’ll know what she wants
(12:57:32 PM) jeremystudiod: yeah i mean thats what i was saying at the end
(12:57:36 PM) kate9881: right
(12:57:42 PM) kate9881: the other thing is
(12:57:43 PM) jeremystudiod: lame doesn’t have to be a reason to get frustrated and give up
(12:57:55 PM) kate9881: i think sometimes we don’t give people enough of a chance
(12:58:07 PM) kate9881: like sometimes 2 dates isn’t really enough
(12:58:08 PM) jeremystudiod: yeah we do tend to have a checklist in our head or something
(12:58:56 PM) kate9881: yeah i mean
13:05
(1:09:56 PM) jeremystudiod: its much easier to write someone off or focus on ‘warning signs’ rather than be interested in whats behind someone’s behaviors
13:10
(1:10:13 PM) jeremystudiod: i mean, i couldve been like ‘whoa, this girl is crying on my couch? she’s craaaaazy’ and never seen you again
(1:10:20 PM) kate9881: sometimes we just have to let go and accept people for what they are
(1:10:30 PM) jeremystudiod: i think its a matter of our attitude going in
(1:10:47 PM) jeremystudiod: if its an opportunity to get to know someone rather than an interview for a job
(1:11:26 PM) jeremystudiod: yeah … accepting people for what they are is important… especially our own selves … a lot of buddhism/meditation is about that, kind of
(1:12:14 PM) jeremystudiod: its about… this is how it is in this moment, this moment is the only thing i have any control over, everything is exactly as it’s supposed to be (including stuff that we inherently want to think of as ‘bad’ or ‘wrong’)
(1:13:04 PM) jeremystudiod: and all things change all the time, so not getting too hung up on where stuff is right now is to our benefit in removing suffering from our lives
13:15
(1:15:05 PM) kate9881: wow. yeah i guess
(1:15:13 PM) kate9881: not sure i totally get that but maybe a little
(1:18:42 PM) kate9881: i do think that women are conditioned or encouraged or something to have this “ideal” in mind
(1:18:45 PM) kate9881: with the checklist
(1:19:29 PM) jeremystudiod: its counterintuitive to how we’re set up to think… we’re set up to be ‘this is wrong and it sucks’ or ‘this is dangerous’ or ‘this happened this way before so its going to happen this way again’
(1:19:32 PM) jeremystudiod: our limbic system at work
(1:19:42 PM) kate9881: yeah, i guess that makes sense
(1:19:48 PM) kate9881: never thought about it that way
13:20
(1:20:19 PM) kate9881: you should tell her that
(1:21:10 PM) jeremystudiod: but the more we can train ourselves to react to things without that additional attachment of ‘this is good and i want it to always be like this’ or ‘this is bad and i want it to stop’ or ‘this needs to be a specific way in order for me to be happy’, then we can go through life from moment to moment and just kind of experience things as ‘interesting’…and enjoy the joy when its there and learn from the pain when its there…and everything is an opportunity to learn and grow
(1:21:21 PM) jeremystudiod: and its not like one day a switch gets flicked and thats your mode 100% of the time
13:25
(1:27:21 PM) kate9881: yeah
(1:28:03 PM) jeremystudiod: and its especially hard when stress happens
(1:28:13 PM) jeremystudiod: because we all go into the thinking loops
(1:29:09 PM) kate9881: yes
13:30
(1:33:47 PM) jeremystudiod: ‘omg i have so much stuff to do im never going to be able to get it done and then im gonna get fired and ill lose my apartment and have to live on the street and give handjobs for crack and omg im thiking about how much stuff i have to do rather than actually doing it’ etc etc etc
(1:34:49 PM) kate9881: handjobs for crack, eh?
13:35
(1:35:03 PM) jeremystudiod: pop culture references are a crutch, i understand that 😛
(1:35:44 PM) kate9881: i mean, i think, in terms of dating,
(1:35:59 PM) kate9881: often we’re looking for flaws
(1:36:07 PM) kate9881: or we’ve been told to do that
(1:36:17 PM) kate9881: by friends or women’s magazines or something
(1:37:03 PM) kate9881: it’s probably the same for men
(1:38:47 PM) jeremystudiod: well its interesting that you say that
(1:38:58 PM) jeremystudiod: because we’re kind of set up to look for what might be wrong with any given situation anyway
(1:39:02 PM) jeremystudiod: our brains
(1:39:09 PM) jeremystudiod: always on alert
13:40
(1:40:01 PM) kate9881: yeah
(1:40:05 PM) kate9881: because of the bears, right?
(1:40:11 PM) jeremystudiod: heh
(1:40:12 PM) jeremystudiod: yes
(1:40:15 PM) jeremystudiod: because of the bears
(1:41:03 PM) jeremystudiod: its always so fascinating to me how psychology ties into evolution and how personal relationships map to business challenges map to political stuff and its all basically the same
(1:41:38 PM) jeremystudiod: so yeah i think a lot of relationship advice and stuff is like ‘warning signs!’ or ‘top 10 ways to tell if he’s cheating on you’
(1:41:43 PM) kate9881: i still picture muppet bears
(1:41:47 PM) jeremystudiod: hee
(1:41:49 PM) jeremystudiod: me too
(1:42:08 PM) jeremystudiod: because i think those warning things get adrenaline going and lead to impulsive behavior
(1:42:11 PM) jeremystudiod: like buying the magazine
(1:42:15 PM) jeremystudiod: its all marekting
(1:42:16 PM) jeremystudiod: marketing
(1:43:14 PM) kate9881: yes
(1:43:16 PM) kate9881: fear
(1:44:00 PM) jeremystudiod: yup
(1:44:12 PM) jeremystudiod: everything comes from fear or love
(1:44:16 PM) jeremystudiod: or, go to back even further
(1:44:26 PM) jeremystudiod: all actions are motivated from a place of separation or a place of connection
13:45
(1:46:43 PM) jeremystudiod: lol, i just got an email from our corp comm department with some best practices for my livetweeting stuff tomorrow
(1:46:51 PM) jeremystudiod: giving me advice on how to use twitter. way to go, guys.
(1:48:00 PM) kate9881: ha
(1:48:04 PM) kate9881: what are the best practices

Written by admin

May 16th, 2012 at 2:02 pm

Posted in Kate

transition time.

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Jeremy Meyers
so…yeah.
11:57
Kate Farina

11:58
Jeremy Meyers
i’m sorry its been difficult lately
11:58
Kate Farina
hey, you’re going through a challenging time. i didn’t sign up for the good parts only
and god knows, i have my rough times too
the important thing is that we can talk about it
12:00
Jeremy Meyers
i know
here’s the thing
when i was living with my dad as an adult
a lot of my time was spent with like…blinders on… just trying to get through another day
figuring out different ways how i could get through the week
being at home, on the computer, watching tv, reading, porning, whatever
coping mechanisms
diversion
s
and it was a really hard time for me
and that replicated itself when i first moved in to my apartment
when i was by myself
there were a lot of nights and weekends where i’d just do my best to oookill time until i could sleep
and my sleep schedule switched around to being awake at night
and usch
such
as my default
and it was sad but i was comfortable
in that spiral
so when i have an extended period where i feel like i dont really have a purpose
like now
even though i know intellectually that its only temporary
theres a pull inside for me to go back into that, and protect myself, and shut down from others
and like…get onthe computer when i can’t sleep
and play with people online when i feel lonely
etc
but its different because i can’t just do that because i have you, so there are consequences
i can’t just hide
so that causes friction
and makes me want to push and get snarky
even though i dont really WANT to
and i guess leads to you feeling taken for granted
so
i just have to figure out what to d
o
and how to cope
yeah thats all i have
Kate Farina
whoa, sorry i was away from my desk
okay.
i do understand that somewhat
i haven’t been in that exact situation, but i have gone through periods like that
i was seriously depressed living in phoenix and then after when i was unemployed
and i know that as much as i bitch about my job and i hate it on many levels, i would have some trouble if i didn’t have it
maybe this sounds weird to you, but when we started dating, you seemed so stable and together
i say ‘seemed’ because that was my perception, i’m not sure if it was your reality
12:16
Jeremy Meyers
well, i was more togehter than the last time we hung out
plus i’d just started a new job that i liked
12:17
Kate Farina
right
and you were so into meditation and stuff
and i was a fucking mess
i’ve talked about this with my therapist, how sometimes i’m more comfortable not being the ‘leader’ in some ways
so i guess that’s why i’ve felt a little uneasy lately. i feel a little more responsibility to sort of keep things on track or whatever
12:21
Jeremy Meyers
i’m not sure what you think you ahve to do beyond what you usually do
12:22
Kate Farina
i guess i have an urge to try and make you ‘happy’
or feel like it’s all going to be okay
provide some comfort
but i know that i can’t fix it
i can’t really do much of anything except be supportive and access to my butt
12:27
Jeremy Meyers
i think the thing is
this is how it is
12:30
Kate Farina
yes
12:31
Jeremy Meyers
and it seems like when either of us try to ‘fix’ or whatever, it jsut makes it worse
12:31
Kate Farina
we’re doing the best we can during a tough time
12:31
Jeremy Meyers
i dont want to be snippy at you
i know its misdirected
12:31
Kate Farina
okay
12:32
Jeremy Meyers
but sometiems i am
when i’m feeling like this
12:35
Kate Farina
i love you even when you’re feeling not so great
but i reserve the right to call you out on being snippy
12:35
Jeremy Meyers
i know
i jsut wanted you to know that i know i’m doing it and i dont like…feel good about it but i’m trying to figure out how to be in this situation when its not just me.
12:36
Kate Farina
yes. i’m still figuring stuff out too
12:36
Jeremy Meyers
and my default is to push people away
no matter who they are
12:37
Kate Farina
just don’t push me out of bed

Written by admin

March 22nd, 2011 at 12:52 pm

Posted in Kate

various discussions about nonmonogamy

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Me
what do you think about monogamy as a social construct? does it go against our more fundamental nature and are we just kidding ourselves by thinking we can be happy with a single sexual partner over a long period of time? whats the ideal situation if societal pressures were less of a factor?
1:45pmTamsen
Good day to you, too!
1:45pmMe
hi!
1:45pmTamsen
I could swear I just saw an article about this within the last day or two…
1:47pmMe
yeah theres a new book out
1:47pmTamsen
It’s definitely a social construct, not a biological one.
But I think, for most cultures, there are very good reasons why the construct is in place.
At the same time, those very cultures are changing, so the rigidity of the construct is, too.
1:48pmMe
as evidence mounts
no pun intended
1:48pmTamsen is offline.
1:48pmTamsen is online.
1:48pmMe
divorce rates, etc
1:48pmTamsen
Exactly.
As far as I’m concerned, it’s to each his or her own, as long as people are open and honest about where they fall in regards to their expectations of monogamy.
In other words, don’t tell me you’re monogamous if you’re not.
1:49pmMe
sure… communication is key in any interaction between two people
doubly so if at least one of them is naked
1:50pmTamsen
One would hope.

1:51pmTamsen
What has you thinking about this in the middle of the day?
BRB
1:52pmMe
i just think the perception of long term marital “bliss” is fading and the reality of whether its tenable is showing itself more and more, and the perception isn’t keeping up. and i’m wondering if GenY will be among teh last generations to have ‘mom dad and kids’ be the norm
2:02pmTamsen
Very possible. But I think our perspective is VERY affected by our metropolitan locales. Folks in middle American think us city folk live in Sodom and Gemorrah.
But I have to run to a meeting…I’ll be back on later.
2:02pmMe
well we do, dont’ we?

2:03pmTamsen
In our way, yes

====
Me
what do you think about monogamy as a social construct? does it go against our more fundamental nature and are we just kidding ourselves by thinking we can be happy with a single sexual partner over a long period of time?
2:03pmJoe
no…it is wonderful to be monogamous
I think it is natural
it is staying with the person you choose
no matter how different or odd
2:04pmMe
right but is that necessarily reliant on never having other sexual partners
2:04pmJoe
no
2:05pmMe
can you be 100% committed to your partner and also have sex with other people either together or separately
2:05pmJoe
if you can rise to that level of maturity
no..not exactly
if your partner is fully aware
or has equal permission
I know many mature couples who share
usually after the children, etc.
exploratory orgies can be supported in that openess too
2:06pmMe
gay and striaght?
2:06pmJoe
both
some couples go on orgie retreats
wife swapping is still huge
most of these types of people are very sexual
sexuality being their primary form of expression
2:08pmMe
interesting
2:08pmJoe
yeah..there is a lot of fun to be had out there
2:08pmMe
indeed
i dont know… been talking about it with kate
we’re both pretty sexually adventurous, but its tweaking her more than its tweaking me
i mean, talking about the concept, not talking about going out and scoring some random girl
2:09pmJoe
women need a lot of security before they feel comfortable about that stuff
you guys are still pretty new…she may find it as a way for you to hedge…be careful
2:10pmMe
i’m not pushing her toward a particular goal
and i’m not questioning my commitment to her
or hedging
i mean… she’s it. i just want us to be able to explore and have fun and have an adventurous relationship as much as we can
its not like “i want her to let me fuck other people”
and she knows this
2:12pmJoe
I don’t know…
I’m just speaking from experience
2:12pmMe
yeah
i mean it has been tweaking her, so i’m laying off of the discussion for awhile
2:13pmJoe
yeah
2:13pmMe
she’s talking about it in therapy i’m sure
as she should
it brings up all kinds of things
which is interesting
2:13pmJoe
I would…early in a relationship I would take it as a rejection
but that’s me
2:14pmMe
well i’ve made it as clear as i can that it isn’t one.
2:14pmJoe
words, words, words
2:14pmMe
didn’t say just verbally
2:14pmJoe
be careful
2:15pmMe
and this is in the context of bringing someone else in potentially, for fun… not like… each of us going out and scoring some new partner
i am being careful
2:15pmJoe
but who?
2:15pmMe
who knows.. that hasn’t been a part of the discussion and i kind of dont want it to be
its not about ‘its real and making it happen’…
2:16pmJoe
you better shut up
sounds kind of stupid to me
2:16pmMe
why?
i mean not that i’m disagreeing
2:16pmJoe
It is a threat to your relationship
2:16pmMe
only if she thinks i’m looking for a reason to leave
2:17pmJoe
if something like that happens organically that’s one thing
or if you all meet someone you are both into…i had a girl friend like that we’d share men
2:17pmMe
well, does it happen organically if there haven’t been some kind of conversation about that stuff in general?
yeah… i mean if it were to happen, i wouldn’t be the one to ‘choose’ or whatever…
2:17pmJoe
can’t you wait until it happens to dialog
not good casual conversation…it sounds with my women ears like a fear of commitment
2:19pmMe
well you have more experience around the concept than i do… do you think it would have been better/worse had you had a discussion about how each side felt about the prospect ?
maybe i do have a fear of commitment on some level… who knows. but why does commitment have to equal commitment to lifetime sexual exclusivity\
2:20pmJoe
I wouldn’t have brought it up, ever…I’d let it happen if it were meant to be from all perspectives
you are too early in the relationship to be so concerned with that question at all
you haven’t established commitment yet in your relationship
2:21pmMe
well its not like i’m interested in taking any action one way or the other at any time soon around it
2:21pmJoe
it isn’t verbal…it is time and actions
2:21pmMe
its an interesting point
maybe i’m being impatient
2:22pmJoe
yeah
the fact that you are thinking this way could be a deeper sign that you are not satisfied sexually or engaged in her
it is work to be in a committed relationship
2:23pmMe
thats a separate conversation that we’re both dealing with
not a problem, but some stuff we both need to adjust for
i know its work
believe me
2:24pmJoe
…just when you think the work is done…there is always more
2:24pmMe
i mean… it takes effort… that doesn’t make it WORK necessarily
well the same thing goes for being alive
2:24pmJoe
right
2:24pmMe
but it beats the alternative
2:24pmJoe
that’s right
and they must balance to your partner
2:25pmMe
we’re workingon it
theres some health things and some self-confidence things and some safety things
er… emotional safety
as there tend to be
2:25pmJoe
take your time with all of those
2:25pmMe
trying
i dont think either of us are 100% satisfied, but i think we both see the potential in our sexual connection
which is the importnt thing
or, an important thing
2:26pmJoe
yeah
100 % is not the goal
enjoying the moment and hearing each other takes the most time
we’re all pretty stupid when it comes to living together
2:27pmMe
indeed
2:28pmJoe
Nic and I whittle away at our problems a little bit at a time
after 6 years we’re better at it
2:28pmMe
yeah we do that too… i mean overall we’ve very communicative… almost too much, sometiems
we spend lots of time talking about our relationship
2:29pmJoe
right…I keep my mouth shut a lot of times…I get my needs met
but because I am more mature
I can wait…I always give Nic first bitch rights
2:31pmMe
right
2:32pmJoe
I ask for attention when I need it and vice versa…you are always teaching your partner about yourself…
2:32pmMe
indeed
2:32pmJoe
they cannot read your mind
ever
2:32pmMe
no
all this i know
2:32pmJoe
you can’t know it enough
2:32pmMe
i may not be as much of a talker as you, my friend, but i share as much as i can
2:33pmJoe
I bet you’re more of a talker than you know…mr. thirdpersoninbed.
2:34pmMe
well
i dont know, its not even like… ‘i want to have a threesome tomorrow!’…
2:34pmJoe
to you
2:34pmMe
i’ve been thinking of it more in terms of ‘i want to have a partner that i can explore and have fun with in as many ways as we both feel comfortable with’
2:35pmJoe
move to california and get you a hippy girl
2:35pmMe
i’m already maybe moving to seattle with this girl

2:35pmJoe
and even then it’ll have to be a few years into the relationship
seattle is not cali
2:35pmMe
no
2:35pmJoe
much more conservative
2:35pmMe
this is who i want to be with, full stop
2:36pmJoe
maybe hetero S&M could be good
there are a lot of clubs for that
2:36pmMe
whether that ends up including other people or not is nto my primary concern
2:36pmJoe
and it invites other’s by its nature
2:36pmMe
yeah neither of us are into pain games or power games tho only into getting lol boost services from p4rgaming.com.
2:36pmJoe
lol
how do you know
2:36pmMe
maybe because we got into the relationship part of the relationship quickly (not TOO quickly, but quickly) that it has created an illusion that we’re further along in terms of our commitment and safety with each other than we actually are…
2:37pmJoe
that’s right
2:37pmMe
well if talking about the concept of monogamy in society as it relates to our relationship has tweaked her this much, i dont know how ‘hey honey, wanna go to an s&m club?’ is gonna work out
2:37pmJoe
I’ve done that…there is what we think, and then what we are capable of and rarely to they connect
lol…well you start at home…like a hobby
then you go to a convention, then maybe with some other couple
then to a club
you do b line…a lot
don’t not with a relationship
take your time
2:39pmMe
b line?
2:39pmJoe
and enjoy it…don’t cut to the end
b line…shortest point between two objects
2:39pmMe
bee line
yeah i’ve always wanted to skip the beginnings of relationships because thats where the most opportunity for uncertainty is
2:39pmJoe
bee lines are swiggily
2:40pmMe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beeline
i didn’t make it up
heh
2:40pmJoe
I don’t doubt it
it’s an old term
the uncertainty is the relationship
you can’t wash over your fears with manly bravado
she can’t get to know you
you can’t get to know her
no trust do you build
Yoda Line Bee
2:43pmMe
old habits.
2:48pmJoe
time and space
2:52pmMe
indeed
<=- only child. i want what i want when i want ti
it
2:52pmJoe
it is hard for us
2:53pmMe
no pun intended
2:53pmJoe
?
I would focus on trying to connect to her
and going further than you have ever imagined to please her
2:54pmMe
i do that anyway

2:54pmJoe
you think you do
2:54pmMe
i’m not trying to make this happen right now
2:54pmJoe
it doesn’t sound like it
then it isn’t happening
2:54pmMe
well all you know of the situation is this one issue i’m bringing up
2:54pmJoe
done
2:54pmMe
i mean that and our cutesy facebook messages
heh
2:54pmJoe
I’ll talk to you later
2:56pmMe
thanks for your advice

====

14:00
(14:03:21) jeremystudiod: what do you think about monogamy as a social construct? does it go against our more fundamental nature and are we just kidding ourselves by thinking we can be happy with a single sexual partner over a long period of time?
(14:03:42) thecrownjoel: is this like a mass message
(14:03:43) thecrownjoel: or just to me
(14:03:58) jeremystudiod: not mass, but to a few people i’m interesting in hearing from on the topic
(14:04:04) thecrownjoel: i cant speak for females
(14:04:08) thecrownjoel: i can guess about males
(14:04:09) jeremystudiod: wasn’t asking you to 🙂
(14:04:12) thecrownjoel: but i can definitely answer about myself
(14:04:28) thecrownjoel: id like to have a partner in life
(14:04:34) thecrownjoel: but id also like to have sex with tons of women
(14:04:49) thecrownjoel: i think it goes against my personal nature to be in a committed relationship
(14:04:56) thecrownjoel: but it also sucks more to be alone and without anyone
14:05
(14:05:24) thecrownjoel: now if u can cheat and not have it bother you
(14:05:31) jeremystudiod: no, i’m not talking about cheating
(14:05:32) thecrownjoel: i guess thats having your cake and eat it to
(14:05:40) thecrownjoel: i guess to answer your question
(14:05:41) thecrownjoel: yes
(14:05:51) thecrownjoel: IF
(14:05:57) thecrownjoel: you’re basing a relationship strictly on lust
(14:06:06) thecrownjoel: thats why i feel the core of a sucessfull relationship
(14:06:08) thecrownjoel: is friendship
(14:06:12) jeremystudiod: i’m talking about an open and honest communication adn agreement about the physical boundaries of an emotionally monogamous relationship
(14:06:34) thecrownjoel: what brought this on
(14:07:03) jeremystudiod: just something i’ve been thinkign about as a concept
(14:07:10) jeremystudiod: theres this new book out called Sex at Dawn
(14:08:16) jeremystudiod: which pretty explicitly lays out the argument that we are not meant to be monogamous creatures, that it is mainly a social construct, and that pre-agriculture, our ‘relationships’ were in small-to-medium sized groups where each member was committed to the health of the gruop as a whole, and ‘casual sex’ within the group was the norm
14:10
(14:11:53) jeremystudiod: i mean, whether thats true, and whether thats something thats even possible in our current social structure, who knows
(14:11:56) jeremystudiod: but its interesting

 

Written by admin

March 21st, 2011 at 11:55 pm

Posted in Women

sex and seattle

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13:16:33) kate9881: is it ok if i think about applying to some graduate programs?
(13:17:31) jeremystudiod: of course its okay… tho it kinda makes me nervous
(13:17:35) jeremystudiod: tho that shouldn’t stop you
(13:19:13) kate9881: nervous how
(13:23:08) jeremystudiod: nervous like what if in march waggener wants me to move to seattle and you get accepted to an awesome grad program in boston
(13:23:56) kate9881: ok, but what we’ve learned in the past couple weeks is that things charge without warning and we have no clue what might happen in the coming months
(13:25:37) jeremystudiod: yeah i know
(13:25:42) jeremystudiod: i’m just saying it makes me nervous
(13:25:56) jeremystudiod: and i feel bad that it makes me nervous because of course you should apply for whatever you wnat
(13:26:35) kate9881: yeah i get it
(13:27:02) kate9881: i just think that it doesn’t hurt to at least try and see what happens
(13:27:12) jeremystudiod: are there good grad programs at seattle u?
(13:27:17) jeremystudiod: also i mea
(13:27:17) jeremystudiod: n
(13:27:29) jeremystudiod: this is something i was talking about in therapy
(13:28:42) jeremystudiod: how you’ve said that its important to you that i be really behind the seattle move and unwavering on it. and i’m not. im’ not like ‘yes seattle is where i want to spend the rest of our days’… there are parts of it i like, and i like the idea of moving somewhere that has more of the things that both of us like and less of the things we don’t, and also has a job waiting for me
(13:29:16) kate9881: hey – i wouldn’t expect ANYONE to be “unwavering”
(13:29:24) kate9881: in the real world, at least
(13:29:30) jeremystudiod: and maybe i’m not thinking about it in terms of both of us… it would be different if it was just me
(13:29:45) kate9881: i think what freaked me out is that the same day you were talking about finding a totally different city
(13:30:08) jeremystudiod: well hey, maybe you find a grad school in a totally different city that we end up liking
(13:30:42) kate9881: well, it’s not really about that for me
(13:30:46) jeremystudiod: i know
(13:31:09) kate9881: my gre will expire at some point
(13:31:23) jeremystudiod: i’m 100% on board with finding a place that is differently paced, has more access to nature, but is not a small town and still has some city amenities and some culture.
(13:31:43) kate9881: and since i’m at somewhat of a crossroads, i just think, might as well try something
(13:31:48) jeremystudiod: the fact that seattle seems to map to those things and also would keep me employed is the reason that i’m pushing for it.
(13:31:49) kate9881: or explore it at least
(13:32:03) jeremystudiod: but in fact i dont even really know if those are the things that you’re also interested in finding
(13:32:09) jeremystudiod: because i dont think i ever really asked that explicitly
(13:32:48) jeremystudiod: so maybe you want something totally different
(13:33:12) kate9881: i don’t know if i’ve ever thought about it in those terms
(13:33:33) kate9881: and i’ve changed my mind about that stuff plenty over the years
(13:33:47) kate9881: having a criteria, i mean
(13:34:19) kate9881: seattle seems cool
(13:34:32) kate9881: it does have many positive
(13:34:46) kate9881: and the things i’m worried about are things i’d probably be worried about anywhere
(13:35:20) kate9881: but my take on the whole situation is this
(13:35:39) kate9881: 1. i’d love to have everything work out and end up moving there with you
(13:36:04) kate9881: 2. i think i realize more clearly that i can’t assume that will happen
(13:36:16) kate9881: or at least, happen quickly or easily
(13:36:49) kate9881: 3. maybe i just need to do something for ME
(13:37:14) kate9881: and just see what happens
(13:38:10) kate9881: in all likelihood, probably nothing will come of it
(13:39:05) kate9881: and even if the seattle stuff totally came through in the spring and i got into a program somewhere, then it’s an embarrassment of riches
(13:39:08) jeremystudiod: of course i understand and of course i want you to do something for you (as i was saying, its hard for me to do that too, so maybe we can push each other). i’m jsut saying my gut emotional reaction was ‘fuck, what if we both have great opportunities in completely different cities.’… the abandonment stuff starts up
(13:39:27) jeremystudiod: whether its a valid concern or not
(13:39:31) kate9881: there’s no abandoning
(13:39:45) kate9881: there’s just expanding options
(13:39:59) kate9881: i’m not going anywhere without you
(13:40:26) jeremystudiod: and then it gets into ‘well i dont want her to sacrifice a great opportunity so that we can move somewhere that neither of us are 100% sold on so i can work for a company im not 100% sold on’
(13:40:41) kate9881: no one is ever 100% sold on anything
(13:41:16) kate9881: some time i should tell you about what happened when my mom and i got to phoenix
(13:42:29) kate9881: i don’t expect either of us to be 100% sold
(13:42:32) kate9881: no way
(13:42:47) kate9881: plus, then how could it ever live up to our expectations??

16:41:46) jeremystudiod: i was thinking as i was getting lunch about how i back down from asserting my needs
(16:41:58) jeremystudiod: (i’m trying to get more clarity on the actual relationship to it)
(16:42:11) kate9881: asserting your needs to whom?
(16:42:15) jeremystudiod: to whoever
(16:42:25) jeremystudiod: i mean theres probably an unconscious criteria
(16:43:30) jeremystudiod: but its like… i stop myself from calling for appointments and stuff because i think on some level i imagine that they’re going to be like ‘YOU want an appointment? no can do.’
(16:43:36) jeremystudiod: or just not listened to
(16:43:59) jeremystudiod: and on some level thats connected to my never really having gotten my needs listened to as teenager and young adult
(16:44:14) kate9881: hey, i feel like that all the time
(16:44:25) kate9881: except for me, it’s more of a fear of bothering people
(16:44:35) kate9881: or seeming to “need help”
(16:44:46) jeremystudiod: well that makes sense beccause your dad seems perpetually bothered by other humans
(16:44:50) jeremystudiod: whether its an affectation or not
(16:45:00) kate9881: maybe
(16:45:14) jeremystudiod: maybe
(16:45:16) jeremystudiod: indeed
(16:45:24) jeremystudiod: but i was thinking that maybe it connects to our sex life too
(16:45:32) jeremystudiod: like that conversation we were having
(16:45:59) jeremystudiod: maybe i assume you’re not going to want to on some level and you assume its going to be a bother
(16:46:09) jeremystudiod: you know….sometimes.
(16:46:16) kate9881: i don’t know
(16:47:22) kate9881: honestly, it often doesn’t occur to me
(16:47:47) kate9881: to haven express ‘needs’ or whatnot
(16:48:12) kate9881: to even express, i meant
(16:48:46) kate9881: i actually think it’s gotten more difficult
(16:49:02) kate9881: because now i’m probably overly concerned with ‘pleasing you’
(16:49:11) jeremystudiod: yeah
(16:49:32) kate9881: and most of the time i don’t feel like i’ve ‘succeeded’
(16:49:37) jeremystudiod: and i’m overly concerned with everything being ‘fine’
(16:50:20) jeremystudiod: or something
(16:50:29) kate9881: well, i don’t really know what ‘fine’ is. by my definition, it already is ‘fine’
(16:51:07) kate9881: i think sometimes all the conversations and stuff are just piling up the expectations
(16:51:46) jeremystudiod: possibly but i’m also not sure how we get more spontaneous without hashing out whats keeping us from being spontaneous more
(16:52:07) kate9881: i don’t know. but i definitely feel more nervous now
(16:52:15) jeremystudiod: well dont be nervous
(16:52:32) kate9881: i feel like every encounter is being graded or something
(16:52:46) jeremystudiod: hm
(16:53:09) kate9881: did this please jeremy enough so that it won’t become part of the discussion later?
(16:53:15) jeremystudiod: oh
(16:53:22) jeremystudiod: i really dont mean for it to be like that
(16:53:32) jeremystudiod: i’m sorry if thats how it has come off
(16:53:37) kate9881: hey, this is coming out of my own head
(16:53:39) jeremystudiod: i know
(16:53:45) kate9881: doesn’t mean it’s objective
(16:55:17) kate9881: and that’s not to say i haven’t been enjoying myself, because i definitely have
(16:55:19) jeremystudiod: i dont even realy know how to phrase how i feel about it other than what we’ve already said and that it seems like we both have some stuff around being spontaneous and integrating it into our overall life together
(16:55:44) kate9881: but at the same time, i’m now more worried that you aren’t enjoying yourself or something
(16:55:54) jeremystudiod: i absolutely love playing with you
(16:56:15) jeremystudiod: thats not what i’m talking about
(16:56:27) jeremystudiod: i think its part of the challenges of learning to live together
(16:56:37) jeremystudiod: figuring out how to be spontaneous
(16:57:05) kate9881: yes
(16:57:36) kate9881: but i mean, i’m the first to admit that i’m not the smoothest person when it comes to spontaneous initiating stuff
(16:57:44) jeremystudiod: i was talking to my therapist about feeling like everything needs to be either perfect or needing to be ‘fixed’
(16:58:01) kate9881: nothing is perfect and nothing is ever totally fixed
(16:58:18) jeremystudiod: and he made the point that a functional relationship involves pretty regular ‘tweaking’ in order to optimize… that doesn’t mean that something was wrong before
(16:58:37) jeremystudiod: and with sex especially, in my head if theres something that could use some tweaking it also means that something is ‘wrong’
(16:59:05) kate9881: yeah
(16:59:16) jeremystudiod: which isn’t true
(16:59:41) kate9881: it just feels like, in the past few weeks or so, you seem kind of sad afterward or something
(16:59:54) jeremystudiod: hm
(17:00:20) kate9881: and what immediately pops into my mind is “you’re not pleasing him! you’re not good enough!”
(17:00:28) jeremystudiod: the past few weeks i’ve been kinda off in general. it rarely if ever has to do with you
(17:00:57) jeremystudiod: well, next time those thoughts come up, you can ask me or tell me or whatever
(17:01:07) jeremystudiod: i’ve been generally in more of a snuggly mood than a sexy one
(17:02:08) kate9881: ok
(17:02:31) kate9881: i’m perfectly happy to do more snuggling
(17:03:03) jeremystudiod: i’m feeling kinda vulnerable and stuff… thinking about this whole thing with my dad
(17:04:04) jeremystudiod: so basically i’m trying to take the angle that its not that anything is ‘wrong’ with our playtime its that we both maybe need to give ourselves permission to enjoy it more?
(17:04:29) jeremystudiod: and i’m sorry if my wanting to talk about it led you to a different conclusion
(17:06:02) kate9881: it’s ok
(17:06:15) kate9881: i have weird issues too
(17:06:23) jeremystudiod: really?
(17:06:25) kate9881: so this is coming from that too
(17:06:30) jeremystudiod: dammit i wish you’d told me this before!
(17:06:32) jeremystudiod: 😉
(17:06:40) kate9881: there is nothing ‘wrong’
(17:07:00) kate9881: and yes, we do need to give ourselves permission to enjoy it

Written by admin

October 15th, 2010 at 5:36 pm

Posted in Kate

The story of Kate and Jeremy

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we met on craigslist in 2008… hit it off, went out a few times, but we were both in a not-so-great headspace for dating, so it kind of fizzled out.  Before that, I loaned her my copy of Angel Season 1 on DVD.  Afterward, we’d talk online every few months, and I’d mention that we should meet for coffee so i could get my dvds back, but somehow it never happened.  In August of 2009 (when I was starting a new job), I randomly wondered what she was up to so I sent her a Facebook message, and she responded awhile later that she’d moved to brooklyn and found my DVDs and felt really bad about it.  So anyway, she came over to return them and we hung out on the couch for like 4 hours talking, and then later in the week we went to dinner, and then to central park over the weekend, and we’ve been together ever since.

Written by admin

August 2nd, 2010 at 12:18 pm

Posted in Kate

Jenny Drama

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i figured out why it bugged me so much … because its political, which is a whole system that i refuse to buy into. because office poltics is based on the importance of heirarchy and position, which means that people value themselves based on their job title and by proxy, the amount of money they make, and thats something i just dont subscrbie to at all. my motivator for working is to be able to do what i’m good at and also pay rent, its not having a business card with VP on it, or getting paid six figures, like…at all.  i’d rather get in trouble and keep my integrity intact
i’d rather get in trouble and keep my integrity intact

Written by admin

May 7th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

Posted in Kate

Off night with Kate discussion

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(10:50:46 AM) kate9881: hey
(10:50:49 AM) kate9881: i love you
(10:50:56 AM) jeremystudiod: hey i love you too
(10:51:22 AM) jeremystudiod: we were a little off last night
(10:51:24 AM) jeremystudiod: stupid sake
(10:52:00 AM) kate9881: eh, it happens
(10:52:13 AM) jeremystudiod: yup
(10:52:47 AM) jeremystudiod: sometimes i get triggered by stuff like that
(10:54:14 AM) kate9881: triggered by sake?
(10:54:19 AM) kate9881: or having an off night
(10:54:23 AM) jeremystudiod: the latter
(10:54:36 AM) jeremystudiod: it becomes like ‘omg what if its all gonna fall apart now!’
(10:54:41 AM) kate9881: wha???
(10:54:52 AM) jeremystudiod: ‘what if it stays weird!’
(10:54:54 AM) kate9881: hey, we haven’t really ever had a fight
10:55
(10:55:23 AM) jeremystudiod: i know
(10:55:47 AM) jeremystudiod: i’m not saying thats what i believe in my heart, i’m saying that thoughts get triggered
(10:56:07 AM) kate9881: i mean, in some ways that’s why i was like ‘let’s have sex now’
(10:56:07 AM) jeremystudiod: and then i dont want to tell you because i dont want you to think that i’m seriously worried about it and i dont want you to worry about it
(10:56:22 AM) kate9881: because sometimes you just need to get in a different headspace
(10:56:50 AM) kate9881: if it would make you feel better to tell me, you can
(10:56:51 AM) kate9881: i get it
(10:57:51 AM) kate9881: i won’t freak out or something
(10:58:02 AM) jeremystudiod: okay
(10:58:11 AM) jeremystudiod: thats just the abandonment stuff that comes up
(10:59:00 AM) kate9881: ok
(10:59:10 AM) kate9881: it’s just that
(10:59:32 AM) kate9881: i need to be able to say what i feel, even if i’m mildly annoyed
(10:59:48 AM) jeremystudiod: absolutely
(10:59:50 AM) kate9881: without feeling like “oh no, i don’t want to trigger the abandonment issues”
11:00
(11:00:10 AM) jeremystudiod: i know, and i dont want you to start censoring
(11:00:22 AM) kate9881: right
(11:00:56 AM) jeremystudiod: i think its okay that stuff gets triggered because it gives me a chance to work through it, maybe?
(11:01:16 AM) jeremystudiod: i mean, inevitably i’ll hit one of your triggers without meaning to and vice versa
(11:01:20 AM) kate9881: in any relationship there are going to be little disagreements here and there and times when we each get a little frustrated or something
(11:02:00 AM) kate9881: so, we both accept that it will happen and know that it doesn’t mean that everything will blow up and end in a break up
(11:03:14 AM) jeremystudiod: yeah i mean sometimes its just like.. its been really great since we started so if we have an off night then it triggers like… ‘weve been at 99% for 4 months and right now we’re at 90% oh no oh no!’
(11:03:50 AM) jeremystudiod: because with my parents everything seemed fine for a long tiem and then it kind of suddenly (at least from my perspective) got horrible for a long time and then my mom left
(11:04:50 AM) jeremystudiod: and i get intellectually that having an off night or having a disagreement or whatever isn’t the same as that
(11:04:57 AM) jeremystudiod: but it connects in my brain
11:05
(11:05:00 AM) kate9881: ok but, we are not your parents
(11:05:28 AM) kate9881: and i don’t think percentages are a good barometer
(11:05:30 AM) jeremystudiod: yes but the same way you get some personality things from your parents, i get some of this from them
(11:05:35 AM) kate9881: and we’ve had off nights befores
(11:05:42 AM) kate9881: befores?
(11:05:47 AM) kate9881: oops
(11:05:50 AM) jeremystudiod: befos!
(11:05:55 AM) kate9881: befo’
(11:06:08 AM) kate9881: i mean, it’s my PMS time again apaprently
(11:06:32 AM) kate9881: and last month i was specifically like “i need to spend some me time”
(11:06:42 AM) kate9881: so it’s not like, unprecedented
(11:06:44 AM) jeremystudiod: i know we are not my parents… and its not like… i dont want you to change anything
(11:07:05 AM) jeremystudiod: or have to be self-conscious about hitting triggers
(11:07:16 AM) jeremystudiod: this is something that i want to work on
(11:07:29 AM) kate9881: yeah, and you will
(11:07:34 AM) kate9881: you are
(11:07:39 AM) jeremystudiod: i dont want you to have to go into hiding once a month like a werewolf
(11:07:44 AM) kate9881: i mean, you’re recognizing it

Written by admin

March 11th, 2010 at 4:37 pm

Posted in Kate

Tagged with ,

Current Struggles: How much ‘help’ is too much?

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Supportive vs. Helpful vs. Offering Solutions vs. Trying to Fix vs. Needing to Control

Different for different issues?

Who am I to know what’s best?

Resistance due to overcompensating for patterns from the past?

jeremystudiod: i worry about being ‘too helpful’ and maybe looking for something to be wrong in order for me to help fix it… it hinkt hat comes from dad
StillwelNY: i gathered something like that from ur post
12:55
StillwelNY: it is great that you have the awareness and are willing to work with it
StillwelNY: that is great
jeremystudiod: yeah i’m not too worried, its just scary when i’m ‘in it’…and then i start strategizing which never works
StillwelNY: i think it is very natural to want to help a person you love – and then there are the but’s
jeremystudiod: its complicated
13:00
StillwelNY: I know that one I have a similar issue when I work with younger women – i try to protect them – comes from my relationship with my younger sister
13:10
jeremystudiod: i dont know that it is connected to age with me…
jeremystudiod: not sure
jeremystudiod: i just second guess myself when it comes to someone in my life having a hard time
jeremystudiod: especially someone i’m romantically involved with
jeremystudiod: i question my own motives

jeremystudiod: i’m struggling with that at the moment actuall
jeremystudiod: y
jeremystudiod: just a little
misskatiemo: hm. struggling how?
jeremystudiod: how much to ‘help’ when kate is having trouble with something in her life
14:35
misskatiemo: yeah
jeremystudiod: the line between supportive and ‘trying to fix’

Written by admin

February 8th, 2010 at 4:44 pm

Posted in Women